Sunday, September 14, 2008

It would be impossible for anyone to come to the defense of that Daily Kos 9/11 cartoon, right? Wrong.

A note from Radarsite: After posting this article to the History Channel Boards I started wondering if anyone would actually write in to defend the Daily Kos' publication of this cartoon. No, I decided, that would be impossible. They might find a way to attack me, but no one in their right mind could defend that hideous cartoon or that despicable website that published it.
And yet, incredibly, unbelievably, they have.
To me, this response is even more disturbing than the cartoon itself. Although the author of these comments addresses me repeatedly by name, I am deleting his. However, if anyone wants to read these comments for themselves I have provided the link above. Normally Radarsite posts a commentary at the end of an article. But in this case I will not. I will not reply personally because, even though these comments were directed at me, I feel that they are in reality directed at us all. I await your responses. - rg

From The History Channel Boards

Re: The Daily Kos: Beyond Outrage, Beneath ContemptSep 14, 2008 6:35 AM
> Can someone, anyone, explain this to me? > > > -outrage-beneath.html
I can...but you won't like the answer. I can...but you don't WANT ananswer: If any Democrat or liberal out there does not immediately and passionately condemn this post, and condemn this vicious traitorous website and everything it stands for, if any Democrat or liberal out there does not at oncedisassociate themselves from this horror, then you are indeed the enemy, and I hate you as vehemently as I do al Qaeda. Perhaps even more vehemently, because you have the arrogance to consider yourselves to be Americans.

Therein lies the problem, Roger. Since I am not about to do what you have demanded, you will immediately label me, as you said, the "enemy". This is a sickness common to the right; you feel that you MUST have 'enemies". Not just to help you sort out
friend from foe, you actually need them to justify your very existence. Before you condemn me however, I would ask only one thing: that you be honest enough to read what I am about to write--in its entirety. You still will not like me, but if you are HONESTLY seeking an answer to your question (assuming it was notrhetorical) I will give you one.

I suppose that a dislclaimer is necessary at this point: I lost a very good friend whom I had known since childhood that day. He wasn't a policeman or firefighter, just one of the office folks desperately trying to get out of the building. He didn't make it.

Now, for your answer. It would help if you understood something of the grieving process we ALL suffer when tragedy of any sort occurs, from losing a job, to death of a loved one, to facing our own deaths, to deaths on a scale, or under circumstances, that we cannot even begin to wrap our minds around. To this day, the Holocaust, the Stalanist purges, the Pol Pot regime, the Bataan Death March, the fire bombing of Dresden, and others like them are events that I can comprehend intellectually, but not emotionally. Could I take another person's life? Sure. Could I kill 1,000 people at once? No. Would I feel some overriding guilt at being the agent of another person's death? Only if I was an unintentional agent.

That being said, the grieving process follows a pretty standard path: first, there is denial that whatever the tragedy is has happened, or is happening. Then, once forced to acknowledge it, we get angry, for we don't like to suffer pain of loss (and if you believe that people grieve first for others, you are wrong; we grieve first for ourselves, then for others).

As the anger begins to cool down, we begin to bargain. "God, if you take away this disease, I will go to church every Sunday, and build a shrine in your name!" We promise that which we have never been able to achieve before as a gesture that we are serious. It doesn't have to be to God; it can be to a doctor, ("cure my child, and I'll give everything I have to your favorite charity!") our spouse or parent ("If you will forgive me and take me back, I will change my ways!") the bargaining is pretty straightforward.

But when fate pursues its inevitable course, we enter into depression. We can't shield ourselves from the truth with denial; our anger hasn't done us a bit of good; and whatever force(s) in the universe that control things seem to want a higher return on their investment than our good intentions. At some point during the depression, we come to a realization--that whatever it is that has made us grieve is not going to change, to stop, to reverse itself, so we must accept it. We don't have to be happy about such acceptance--but we acknowledge that things are what they are. If you are outside when it begins to rain, you don't have to like the rain, but you accept the fact that you are wet. Acceptance is a crucial point in the grieving process; it allows you to move on in your life. It doesn't mean that you forget what (or who) made you grieve, nor does it mean that you stop feeling sad; it simply means that this thing did, is, or will happen, and nothing is going to change it.

When the twin towers were struck, do you remember your first reaction? I remember mine. "No--this can't be happening! I refuse to believe it!" That's denial. A part of the denial is a false hope: "Okay, this is bad; but they'll be able to get out..."

Then the shots of the buildings collapsing: "NO! Buildings just don't fall down like that!" False hope: "They had enough time to get everyone out. Those poor people who jumped didn't have too; they just panicked..."

Then the anger begins: "WTF just happened, and why?" As the story comes out, and it becomes clear that terrorists are trying to hurt this country, that anger becomes rage: "This isn't your g-damned backward third world country, you a$$holes; this is the USA!" The rage intensifies: "find the f**kers who did this, and kill them; painfully, if possible. Then kill any of their friends with the same idea, then kill their families; hell--find out where they came from and nuke the whole f**king country back to the Stone Age!" We lash out at Afghanistan: "God, let us just go in, grab Bin Laden, and kick the s**t out of anyone who gets in our way. If he puts up a fight, please make sure his death is slow and very painful..."

Then comes a period of depression. We have searched for him and not gotten him. The a$$hole keeps eluding us." (A return to anger). But then we come to acceptance. We have cleared Ground Zero; we have buried the dead. We have supported the families who had direct losses; we have honored the heroes of that day. Each in our own way, we have tried to understand what Abraham Lincoln understood 143 years ago at Gettysburg: But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate—we can not consecrate—we can not hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract.

But we Americans have a couple of problems with tragedies of this sort. This first is an almost congenital belief that we are (or should be) immune from the same problems that the rest of the world has. We are not. Then, too, we have a large portion of the population which needs to justify their continued anger and hatred against others outside this country--and we do this by great public displays of mourning, even 8 years after the tragedy. Are there people who are still genuinely mouring? I'm sure there are; but the majority do so because it has become expected of them (and certainly, with sentiments such as those you expressed on your blog, perhaps you can understand why someone would rather mourn publicly than be accused of anti-Americanism) .

But there are an even smaller number who continue to use the tragedy for blatanlty self-serving means. This is not the first time it has been done; "Remember the Alamo!" "Remember the Maine!" "Remember Pearl Harbor!" are examples of tragedies which were used for blatantly political causes. (Please note that I DO NOT impugn any of them; I merely state the truth: that they were used as ignition points to fan the flames of both patriotism and hatred in this country, ) The British cartoonist who drew the picture is under no compunction to share our ingrained societal outrage. He may, in fact see our annual mourning as an exercise in ghoulishness, picking at a wound, not letting it heal, as a way to justify our behaviors abroad (and at home).

Finally, why would the Daily Kos call it ghoulish? Perhaps because they understand that Dubya used the tragedy to further his own presidency, and that perhaps giving the country a chance to heal would have been better. Also, when you look at the history of Republican politics, there has ALWAYS been an amorphous external enemy or a heinous internal enemy against which to rally the faithful. And that is what the Republicans need to do: to use 9/11 as a visual image around which the faithful can rally. One need only look at Sarah Palin's acceptance speech at the GOP convention to see that they pulled out every patriotic image to flash on the sceens behind her; a constant reminder to the faithful of who the "real" patriots were.

It is this reckless willingness to divide the people into "patriots" and "non-patriots" based on their adherence to proper modes of behaviors that is a Republican staple, and leads to assinine statements such as this: ...then you are indeed the enemy, and I hate you as vehemently as I do al Qaeda. Perhaps even more vehemently, because you have the arrogance to consider yourselves to be Americans.

Given that trian of thought Roger, how long will it be before you can rationalize calling someone the "enemy" because he comes from a different part of the country, or has a different color skin, or worships differently than you do? There is the answer, roger. I told you that you wouldn't like it; but it IS th truth.

A PS from Radarsite: It seems that that entire response in support of that DK cartoon posted at the history Channel has mysteriously disappeared. If this was the decision of their moderator, I applaud them. Unfortunately however, it's too late. The article has already been written and I am not going to delete it. Someone wrote that response. Someone thought those thoughts. And you published them. Moreover, I believe that these comments did not originate in the mind of one lone lunatic, but accurately represent the opinions of those associated with the publication of those cartoons. For these reasons I am leaving this article untouched. If the History Channel wishes to make any statement regarding this issue I will happily post it - rg


  1. This guy is a lunatic. He needs to be institutionalized much like the rest of the left wing main stream.

  2. BTW Roger the topic was pulled from the boards. And you didn't say which Asshole was this done by. Many on the board probably thought that the Daily Kos cartoon was in bad taste at best and could not give a legitimate answer to your question.

  3. The Democrat Party, but particulary its leadership, as well as liberals and leftists are the enemies of the people.

    They hate democracy and America and mock Americans.

    That anyone calls himself or herself a Democrat either indicates they are such an enemy or that they haven't gotten a revelation of this. Either way, they are the enemy of the people now.

    And it does appear that they lack consciences.

  4. Findalis -- I noted this in a PS at the bottom of the article.
    This from another commenter names the offender. "I'm glad you were able to include the quote from CRW in it."
    Did they pull that one comment or the whole topic? I'll have to check and see.

  5. The post is still up, but they did remove that response.

  6. Well said Roger. It could be the moderator after seeing that "cartoon". They do have some sense of decency at times, even if they do have a very liberal slant.

  7. The Goddamn cartoon clearly is a celebration of the accursed abomination.

    Anyone & everyone who planned, facilitated,supported, sympathized with, enjoyed,celebrated or took pleasure in the destruction, loss of life and grief brought about by the nineteen vermin is an enemy,not only of America, but of all mankind and should be drowned in a septic tank.

    There was, even prior to the accursed abomination, ample reason to hate Moe's Murder Cult and to disrespectfully demand its extinction. Anyone and everyone who denies that fatal fact is one of the enemy, unworthy of our protection, and should be deported or drowned in a septic tank.

  8. And thus the chasm which divides us is defined by those on the other side of it: they say terrorism is a fact of life. An inevitability from which we've been shielded all this time. That revenge isn't justified and remembrance isn't part of the healing process.

    I can't comprehend this mindset, nor can I accept it. Moreover, it still fails to frame the cartoons in any justifiable context. They framed the wanton slaughter of thousands in a pleasant context. This isn't a message against Republicans or a notice that we should just let our nation heal from the tragedy. It is our enemy gloating.

  9. Roger,

    I don't know what to make of this gentleman's comments. but it seems to me that there are many in the West who would rather direct anger toward our own leaders and institrutions then face the truth of who our real enemy is.

    Are they afraid to be angry about 9-11?

    gary fouse

  10. Here is a comment to this article received on another website:
    "Partiotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson.

    This article and this thread are about the wanton destruction of thousands of lives. How can there be any debate here? What cave did these creatures crawl out of? Can these idiots actually be Americans?

  11. "we have a large portion of the population which needs to justify their continued anger and hatred against others outside this country--and we do this by great public displays of mourning"
    This is just one of the many abomidable lines in that sickening comment. But there are many, many more. Are they really worth debating? I don't think so. But I think they are worth publishing. I think there are probably a lot of people out there who don't even know that this type of loathesome creature actually exists amongst us.

  12. As I said on another of your posts, I think this cartoon is outrageous and disgusting.

    I do know that some people feel that the only way they can "get over something" is to deny that it happened. Denying that you feel heartache by pretending you "never dated that jerk" or pretending your childhood pet never died is bad enough... but it's YOUR Ex and your cat.

    This isn't just one person's grief... this is a nation's grief and how each of us deal with it is pretty much our own business. But if someone wants to make light of it as if it was a fly on a windshield or that it didn't happen... that's something they should truly keep to them self. The rest of us do not walk around pretending what happened on 9/11/01 was just another speed bump in the road of life.

    This was an assault on our country and the lives of thousands and to make it petty and small and insignificant is... for all intensive purposes... sacrilegious.

  13. I'm getting so fed up with these people that my tendency is to leave it with, THUS DEFINES THEM.
    The problem is "Americana" just doesn't get it.

  14. Wow, this person lost a friend in the towers and still finds a way after all that phycho babble to get down to the real point - BDS.

    Their hatred of the CIC, and our country out weighs everything else.

    Things like this are almost enough to make a preacher cuss - and I'm not saying that to get a laugh. This stuff really makes me sick to my stomach.

  15. What a nice welcome surprise! Hello CP. Nice to see you, even if it's to reply to such a creature.
    Your anger is more than justified and shared by almost everyone here.
    Please come back often.
    Your friend,

  16. Roger, there are so many fantastic sites to visit - but I want you to know how proud I am of what you are doing here at Radarsite! I love when Dean cross-posts your things at DTRT.

    Keep up the great work you are doing for our country, and I sincerely mean that!