Friday, September 19, 2008

From Other Sites on the Line: 20 Sep 08

From Jay at Stop the ACLU

An Email Conversation on the ACLU and Civil Liberties
Posted on September 20, 2008

Original email I received:

Dear Jay
I probably have some agreement with you that the ACLU takes seperation of church and state way too far.I don’t see that a prayer at a graduation is any violation of a so-called seperation of church and state.Jay my problem arises when we look at some of the ultra conservative ideas to expand we have seen lately from the Bush Administration when it comes to shredding our Fourth Amendment and on those issues I’m thankful for the ACLU.In addition with our economy going into a tailspin in part because of the supply-side economics and sillly idea that the markets can regulate themselves of BUsh and MCCain.What I”m trying to say Jay is that the GOP and far right wing pro corporate agenda of the right is almost as sickening as some on the hyper secular left that you talk about.Look we are in a mess Jay, and its not democrats its the 6 years of GOP policy from 2000-2006 so when you combine your rehetoric against the ACLU with rhetoric attacking Obama and complimenting Bush and McCain you have destroy your credibility.TThere are many on the left who are not part of the secular left and would have some agreement with you but any effort to join the GOP team and group together absolutely destroys your credibility and doesn’t help our cause to fight for more relisgous liberties and unlike you something i cherish “civil liberties.

Jay's response:

I’m gonna guess that you are a conservative leaning libertarian. I could be wrong, with the way you talk about the “right wing” though. However, I proudly call myself a conservative, and embarrassingly call myself a Republican. It isn’t about party. I don’t disagree with everything the ACLU does. I just think they are a fraud and dangerously misguided far to the left. I believe in civil liberties. I just think the ACLU take those liberties too far, to a dangerous level.
Their advocacy of having child molesters live across the street from playgrounds and elementary schools is too far for me. Their advocacy that looking at child porn should be freedom of speech is too far. Their hypocrisy in fighting against listening in to phone calls to known terrorist over privacy issues while keeping a database of their member’s personal financial history is too far. Their attacks on free speech for Christians are too far, and on top of that hypocrisy they have restricted their own board member’s speech.
I don’t want to stop the defending of the bill of rights. I want to stop the perversion of the Constitution. I also want to stop taxpayer funding paying the ACLU’s cases they convince left wing judges of, that the majority of American taxpayers don’t agree with. I’m tired of these legal groups destroying the foundation of our Constitution. If homosexuals want equal rights, then convince enough people to amend the Constitution like they did for abolishing slavery. They only hurt their cause when they convince judges to push it on a population not ready to accept it. Then they only get reactions from politicians ready to represent the will of the people who put Constitutional amendments to ban such things before the people. The people react, just as you would expect, and it makes everything that much harder. They hurt their own cause by going the route of the judiciary.
The ACLU is a partisan organization that should not receive any tax exemption as they do. They separate their organization into two so they can lobby and play the courts. They are evil.

A note from Radarsite: Wow! Superb and spectacular. Right on the money. Thank you for the clarity Jay. -rg
Note: Radarsite is a proud contributor to Stop the ACLU.


  1. I believe Travis had an "undercover" agenda in this post. He just had to mention "corporate agenda," supply-side economics," 6 years of GOP policy from 2000-2006 and attacking Obama.

    None of this has anything to do with civil liberties. He's a troll, IMHO:-)

    Jay's comment was spot-on.


  2. BTW Roger, you, Miss Beth and Susan are teaching me about trolls.


  3. Good comment, Jay.

    I also agree with Maggie re: the "hidden" or not-so hidden agenda in Travis' note. And the commenter is a troll.

    Besides the giveaways Maggie mentioned, the one that leapt off the page was this: "TThere are many on the left who are not part of the secular left and would have some agreement with you . . ."

    Guess that patronizing statement was supposed to endear him to you?

    There'll be ice skating rinks in Hades before anyone on the left will agree.

  4. Those who agree with you Roger are not just on the right, but on the left and in the center. The ACLU has gone too far many times. They forgot that communities have a right to set standards. They favor one group above others. Where is the ACLU when Muslim children are allowed to have organized prayer in schools, but Christian and Jewish students aren't? Where is the ACLU when a child is molested and the molester is allowed to keep contacting the child?

    Their time has come and gone.

  5. History is written by those in academia, not by those who actually made it. And in academia it is the leftist elites that rule the roost. So Communism and Socialism is good, Americanism and Patriotism is bad.

    And black is white, up is down, good is evil.

    Having met many who were interred at that time, I had to write what I did. And many of the Nissie were supportive of the strikes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    We tend to write in generalizations, but forget that is also how it is seen by the academic community towards what they have been doing to us.

  6. Thanks again all. I must be clear however that those comments -- those great comments -- were made by Jay of STACLU and not by myself.
    As for generalizations, I replied to that in the Flags of Our Fathers thread.