7 October 2008: Latest Updates
Final update - 8 Oct - 4am Eastern: The morning after. Thank God, nothing happened. The biggest story of the day turned out to be the rather lackluster Second Presidential Debate. The predicted terrorist hurricane never touched our shores. See Final article above.
Update No. 10 - 7 Oct -12 am Eastern: There are no new updates to report from NIN. There are no new pertinent emails or comments. At this point all we can do is hope that these reports were incorrect and that October 7 will pass ionto the history books relatively uneventfully. If it does we will be relieved and happy. But we will nonetheless be right back where we were before this latest specific threat; back into this dangerous new world of ongoing nebulous threats. We will of course continue to post any important updates throughout the day.
A personal message from Radarsite: Radarsite has reported these events to the very best of our ability. But we are not invested in disaster. If this day passes without incident, I personally will be thrilled. I do not feel as though the credibility of Radarsite is dependent upon its ability to accurately predict the future, but rather in our willingness to report the most credible threats to our vulnerable nation. I have utmost faith in our reader's ability to understand what a fine line we all walk in this new world of ours, between unnecessarily alarming people, and ignoring important warning signs. If these same circumstances were to come together again, I think I would make the same decisions.
Let us all hope and pray that we can finally let this story move down the line and take its place among the archives.
God bless America.
Roger W. Gardner
Update No. 9 - 6 Oct - 8:45 pm Eastern: This just in from MSNBC:
FBI warns of potential terror attacks on public buildings
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 5:54 PM ET
Filed Under: Terrorism
By Jim Popkin, NBC News Senior Investigative Producer
The FBI and Department of Homeland Security today issued an analytical "note" to U.S. law-enforcement officials cautioning that al-Qaida terrorists have in the past expressed interest in attacking public buildings using a dozen suicide bombers each carrying 20 kilograms of explosives.
Authors with the U.S. Office of Intelligence and Analysis added that they have "no credible or specific information that terrorists are planning operations against public buildings in the United States." The FBI and DHS analysts said they were releasing the note because "it is important for local authorities and building owners and operators to be aware of potential attack tactics."
According to the note obtained by NBC News, a "recently discovered audio recording of al-Qa‘ida training sessions conducted several years ago provides instruction to potential suicide terrorists on seizing a publicly accessible building and damaging or destroying it with explosive charges."
Read the entire article here: MSNBC
We do not know whether or not this announcement has any bearing on the 7 October warning, but we are posting it because of its apparent relevance. [Thanks to Jennifer]
Update No. 8 - 6 Oct - 7 pm Eastern: As of this hour there have been no new updates from NIN. Radarsite has received no new emails or comments pertinent to this warning. We will be posting one more update this evening at 12 am eastern. This article will remain bumped to the top and continually updated until 12 am eastern, Wednesday morning.
Update No. 7 - 6 Oct - 5am Eastern: Here is a transposition of a comment which I left at Deb Hamilton's Right Truth, my original source for this story:
It is now the morning of October 6. As you may or may not know, I have been closely following this story since I first read it here on Deb's authoritative site. This is the only terrorist threat warning story that Radarsite has ever covered. There are several reasons why I chose to follow this particular article, one of which was the proximity and specificity of the date in question.
Unlike so many of the nebulous warnings that we are so used to seeing, we will not have to wait weeks or months to see how valid this report is; we will know within two days whether this report is valid or not.
Of course I too looked into the credibility of the source of this info, NIN. What I found was not so clear cut. They are indeed controversial, but they have also been quoted by some fairly reputable authors, such as Daniel Pipes.
Whether or not to follow through on articles such as this one always comes down to personal judgment. I am not particularly swayed by the validation of "professional analysts", who despite their expertise have been of little help with predicting some pretty major events.
Also, with this particular prediction there has been some interesting ancillary evidence that something may indeed be going on here. I have listed this additional info at Radarsite.
Therefore, I have chosen to err on the side of caution and Radarsite has followed this subject closely and updated it every day.
What this episode proves to me is that we are -surprise, surprise --vulnerable. We are in a defensive posture, and we must take every threat seriously if it has any merit whatsoever. This of course makes us susceptible to false information and terrorist manipulation.So be it. This is the world we live in.
The trusted sources I have developed seem to be taking this particular threat quite seriously, so I have followed suit.
I have contacted the relevant agencies on a few prior occasions and on each and every one of them they assured me that I was doing the right thing. This is the new
world we are living in, they told me. We have to stay alert. We have to be willing to report a suspicion even if we know full well that it may never materialize.
If this date of Tuesday October 7 passes uneventfully I will not feel foolish, I will feel greatly relieved. - rg
Update No. 6 - 5 Oct:
There have been no updates today from NIN. Radarsite has not received any new emails or comments today relevant to this article.
Update No.5 - 4 Oct: Is Northeast Intelligence Network backing off the specificity of their initial warning? This is the latest update from NIN on their 7 October warning. Radarsite has highlighted the pertinent text in bold red. It is perhaps ironic that the first qualification (or semi-rebuttal?) of this alarming article that Radarsite has received should come from the original source itself. Are they beginning to question their own sources? Or are they merely presenting us with additional information? As promised, Radarsite will continue to post all updates. Especially those updates that legitimately bring into question the credibility of the original NIN article. Radarsite recommends reading this latest release from NIN and deciding for yourselves what its significance truly is.
Here is the first segment of their latest report:
Read the entire NIN update here.
"All things considered, it would be wise for law enforcement to start putting their feelers out, tap their street resources and listen for any hints of this type activity."
By Randy Taylor, Independent Analyst
3 October 2008: We received quite a bit of response recently as we have shared some of the chatter on the al Qaeda Arabic Internet forums. It’s been difficult because many of the typical venues of communication have been shut down by the people that operate these forums and chat rooms. A recent communiqué and has bugged me since the beginning. It was the report where the person mentioned the first Tuesday after Ramadan as a possible date for terrorist attacks in the United States and abroad, against US interests [Report HERE]. What was significant about that Tuesday? After doing some research the significance wasn’t the day, it is the date. Tuesday October 7, 2008 isn’t significant as to 2008 but October 7 is significant as it is the date back in 2001 when the US and UK attacked Afghanistan. I will state this quite openly. Over the years there has been many dates speculated as a possible date for al Qaeda to unleash attacks in the North American continent and abroad. I wouldn’t put any more thought into Tuesday after Ramadan than I would any number of dates. I only mention this date because of the communiqué and the fact that it was a significant event date in the War On Terror.
It is also important to note that to the best of our knowledge none of the ancillary information (bold red list below) has changed. For example: http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/
Update No. 4 - 3 Oct: How credible is our source?
Northeast Intelligence Network is run by terrorism specialist Douglas Hagmann. Radarsite has established that Mr. Hagmann and NIN have been extensively quoted as reliable sources by many well-known and respected anti-terrorist websites, most notably perhaps by famed terrorism expert and author Daniel Pipes.
Mr. Hagman has also had the dubious distinction of having a fatwa issued against him by American/Muslim furqa settlements Director and terrorist suspect Sheikh Mubarik Ali Hasmi Shah Gilani for his investigation into New York State's controversial "Islamberg". Gilani, you may recall was the Sheikh Daniel Pearl was on his way to meet when he was kidnapped. Here is one portion of Sheikh Gilani's attack. Note the bizarre accounts of American history.
"In this regard I am going to prove that Douglas J. Hagman and his group are the actual perpetrators of international terrorism, and racial and religious bigotry and their ceaseless campaign of hate, is more damaging to the U.S. than any other country.
The U.S. has become a pawn of hidden hands that use America’s wealth and the innocent blood of their sons and daughters to wage their wars against Muslims.
In World War II, observe how they managed to lure the U.S. into the war by concealing the Japanese secret code. This gave the green light to the Japanese to invade the U.S. at Pearl Harbor. This played an integral role in swaying public opinion towards opposing Hitler, eventually pushing the U.S. into the war.
It is obvious that Mr. Hagman is employed by those whose aim is to focus on creating hatred between Muslims and Christians in America. " http://www.islamberg.org/
For more on this subject see:
Also: Miss Beth's Stomping Ground
There have been no new updates posted to NIN. - rg
Update No.3 - 2 Oct: A note to my readers: I will continue posting all of your comments to these latest updates, no matter which particular 7 October article you post them to. The comments and the emails are still coming in and as they do I post them. So for those of you who are following these developments, it's probably a good idea to check back in for new comments throughout these next few days. I will continue the practice of posting particularly pertinent or informative comments to the bold red list. Keeping these various updates, emails, comments and articles all linked together has proven to be a real challenge. But it's certainly worth the effort. I thank you for your patience. - rg
Update No.2 - 1 Oct: As you can see, we have had many interesting and relevant comments since yesterday's update. Rather than reposting all of these new comments to this list, I am leaving them in the comments section. I am however adding Lady Cincinnatus' comment to the list because I feel this is important new information.
Once again, the most disturbing comments are the ones which have not yet come in -- those authoritative comments that would negate the credibility of these reports. Unfortunately, as of this moment we have received no such comments or emails. If we do I will of course post them immediately. Until then however I think we have little choice but to treat these warnings as still credible. One major difference of course between these warnings and previous warnings is the specificity involved: we do not have to wait weeks, or even months, to see if it is actually credible: we're talking about next Tuesday.
No one will be any more relieved and happy if next Tuesday and the following days pass by uneventfully than I will. Until that time however I will continue posting these daily updates. - rg
Update No.1 :Radarsite will keep this page open and bumped to the top of the articles until 8 October 2008. I will be posting any new information I receive from either reader's comments or relevant emails. This new information will be posted in bold red. It is my hope that in this way Radarsite can become something of a clearing house for this important information. If any of you have any pertinent and substantiated info regarding this subject please send it and if credible I will post it to this article. Unfortunately, so far no one has written in to discredit either the previous articles or the validity of our source, so until that happens, I will continue to treat this information from NIN as credible. - rg
This is the first message of this kind I have ever posted to Radarsite. I have neither the training nor the expertise to evaluate intelligence. But I do have my ear to the ground. Something's going on. I don't know what yet, but I can sense it. And so can some of my friends who follow these things very closely. Something's up. There have been several alarming reports coming in, one after the other, all seemingly building up to some kind of a crescendo. Consider the following:
* The alarming follow-up article from Northeastern Intelligence Network about the possibility of a major attack here in the US on 7 October, on which I just posted.
* The Russian's sudden escalation of their belligerence in Georgia.
* My friend and fellow blogger Findalis, who has an impressive background in the field of intelligence analysis writes in: "Don't you find this is odd. Al Qaeda threatening us, Iran threatening to start WW 3 and now Russia up to these tricks. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad went to Moscow a few months ago. What did they discuss and what was promised to Russia? To Iran? Is there a link to all three?" Damn good question.
* Add to these developments Deb Hamilton's latest report at Right Truth that Osama bin Laden's son has just left Iran rather abruptly and unexpectedly to return to Pakistan to be at the heart of a reinvigorated al Qaeda. But why? Why so suddenly? Why now?
* The end of Ramadan on 12 October.
* Our crucial elections on 4 November.
* And some additional info from 3 reliable Radarsite sources which I am not at liberty to discuss, but which seems to confirm the existence of some growing, imminent, but unnamed crisis.
* This latest from our good friend Great Satan's Girlfriend: 7 Oct 2001 is the day GrEaT sAtAn began attacking Taliban, and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Operation Enduring Freedom kicked off with a mix of air strikes from land-based B-1, B-2 and B-52 bombers; carrier-based F-14 and F/A-18 fighters; and Tomahawk cruise missiles launched from both U.S. and British ships and submarines.
*"Beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the 1st BCT [3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team] will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command, as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks[...]
this new mission marks the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts and coordinate defense support of civil authorities."
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/ Hat tip to Joels Trumpet
*email from Jennifer of Defeating Goliath: "By GOD's will, today (1.1.2008), I declare the Warning that In the Name of GOD and by GOD's will , there will be The Quake on 6.10.2008 "[6 October 2008]. http://www.66619.org/2008.htm
* Lady Cincinnatus has left a new comment on your post "7 October 2008: An Update": There is this headline, http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76415"FBI hunts American citizens trained overseas for terror Feds launch dragnet to stop 'October surprise' attack"
* jim.carroll has left a new comment on your post ""Commandments Before the Strike: October 7, 2008" ...": Great Satan's Girlfriend; thanks for that observation. With that information, I think it's safe to say that Wall Street will NOT be the target of any terrorist attack. Instead, I think it would be a Beslan-style attack on a number of schools around the country and/or the commandeering of schoolbuses, using the children as hostages/victims. The goal would be to kill as many of the children, drawing out the process for the maximum agony of the parents (i.e., regular announcements that another child has been executed, without giving names or other details, so every parent wonders if it's their child).The effects of such an attack would have much, much further ramifications than simply attacking Wall Street. We would have a breakdown of societal order on an unimaginable scale. How many parents would refuse to send their kids to school? How many working parents will have to quit their jobs to homeschool their kids, just to provide some measure of safety for them.Such an attack would be justified by the terrorists' claims that the US has been murdering Muslim children since before 9/11, now it is our turn to have our children murdered.If this is the case, I can see at least one instance occuring where a Muslim family or a mosque is attacked. It would only take this one instance for Al-Jazerra to start putting the tape of the attack or the family on the loop as proof that America is engaging in a crusade against Islam.Yes, such an attack would bring McCain/Palin to power, but it would be a hollow victory, since they would be governing a broken country.
[Excellent and very alarming point. I have written about just such a horrific possibility, but I didn't consider it for this particular threat. But there have been reports of school buses having gone missing. http://radarsite.blogspot.com/2008/08/beslan-usa-mentioning-unmentionable_14.html - rg]
* Email from KG of the Australian website Crusader Rabbit: A thought about the possibility of an attack on American schools--if planned, the object may not be to simply attack schoolchildren per se. The longer-term objective could be to spark civil war in the U.S.Muslims hold children hostage and murder some of them. A massive public backlash against muslims ensues AND THE GOVERNMENT CALLS OUT THE NATIONAL GUARD TO CONTROL THOSE WHO KILL MUSLIMS AND BURN MOSQUES.The citizens then begin fighting the troops and police and during this, Russia and Iran make their moves. Iran attacks Israel and Russia takes Georgia and several other ex-satellites such as Poland and Hungary.Extreme? Maybe. But I learned long ago that whatever devious scenario I could imagine, the reality was likely to be far worse.
Things seem to be coalescing into some ominous pattern of coincidental and disturbing movements. All of these things put together seem to suggest that we may be heading into troubled waters in the very near future. It is a time for all of us to stay alert. To listen very closely. To follow all of these new reports and look for common threads. I fear that we are heading into dangerous times. Does the possibility of a Barack Obama win fit into these sinister conjectures, into these emerging patterns? Is there some Great Game afoot?
Here's the bottom line: Whatever additional information Radarsite receives in the comings days and weeks I will share with my readers. Conversely if any of my well-informed readers have any new information to share we would of course welcome it.
And finally, if these next few weeks pass by uneventfully I will not feel the least bit foolish, but I will feel relieved. This is the world we now live in. - rg
Comments transposted from original Radarsite article:
What is the significance of October 7th? It is before the elections in November and any attack on the US would be a boost to the McCain campaign and not to the Obama camp. The jihadists are in favor of Obama, they see him as a fellow traveler at the least, a fellow Muslim at best. So they really wouldn't want to hurt his chances for victory.
I'm sure every analyst is asking him or herself the nagging question:
Why this date and this time?
An attack upon the Stock Exchanges or Banks would be bad, but it wouldn't destroy our economy. An attack on the Capital Building would probably get most Americans cheering. An attack on our schools or hospitals would backfire against Muslims. It would anger us to the point of all out war against Islam.
I know that al Qada thinks differently than we do, but even bin Laden should understand that living in a cave in Pakistan is a lot better than the alternative. Being dragged out of a cave in Pakistan and brought to justice in the United States.
September 29, 2008 11:18 PM
Roger W. Gardner said...
Thank you Findalis. I have thought of all that, but it doesn't change these reports. We've discussed this before, about how it would be politically stupid -- in our eyes at least. I have no idea what the logic would be behind such an attack. But, that doesn't mean much. Remember, I am not promoting this idea, I am reporting it.
September 29, 2008 11:30 PM
I know Roger, but I've spent the last 5 days analyzing this and still am going up the wall.
September 29, 2008 11:41 PM
Neanderthal Rube said...
Madrid is the thinking model for Al Qaeda that would explain an attack before the US election.
With polls trending for Obama and a fundamental misunderstanding of the American psyche, I could see Al Qaeda making the strategic blunder of an attack trying to influence the election.
Thanks for the intel.
September 30, 2008 7:00 AM
Maggie M. Thornton said...
I fear an attack on Wall Street more than anything else. It will do more than ruin our economy for a time. If banking grids go down and banks cannot operate - no ATMS anywhere, no access to money because everything electronic is no more, from the Mother bank, life will not be easy.
We will survive it but life will be very different for a very long time. I'm not saying money will be gone forever, but access to our money could be non-existent for an uncomfortable period of time.
9/11 had no significance other than 911 being an emergency number. I've not seen any verification that the hijackers chose 9/11 for that reason.
Jihad needs nothing more than an open window to attack.
We have no way to know that this is true, but it's always good to have a heads-up.
Our security alert levels have risen and fallen based on these message boards, in the past. Today, with the elections coming, I don't think Homeland Security will bother with the alert levels. We won't know until it happens, and if it is stopped, we probably won't know much either.
September 30, 2008 8:19 AM
GrEaT sAtAn'S gIrLfRiEnD said...
7 Oct 2001 is the day GrEaT sAtAn began attacking Taliban, and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.
Operation Enduring Freedom kicked off with a mix of air strikes from land-based B-1, B-2 and B-52 bombers; carrier-based F-14 and F/A-18 fighters; and Tomahawk cruise missiles launched from both U.S. and British ships and submarines.
September 30, 2008 11:31 AM
"9/11 had no significance other than 911 being an emergency number. I've not seen any verification that the hijackers chose 9/11 for that reason."I do believe Sept.11 was chosen as a reference to the Muslim loss at the Battle of Vienna in 1683. "The battle marked the historic end of the expansion into Europe of the declining Ottoman [Muslim] Empire" See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna
September 30, 2008 7:34 PM
Roger W. Gardner said...
Thorum -- Hello and thank you for your comments. I agree. I have posted on the significance of that date to Muslims elsewhere. Perhaps that comment could be interpreted as 9/11 had no significance to the average American --
September 30, 2008 7:50 PM
A. Anderson said...
Don't know if it's relevant, but Oct 7th is also the date of the Battle of Lepanto -a major defeat for the Muslims by the Holy League in, I believe, 1571.
September 30, 2008 8:12 PM
Holger Awakens said...
Interesting stuff, Roger. You got me thinking! Let's see, what else about October 7th holds significance?:October 7, 1981 - Hosni Mubarek is named Egyptian PresidentOctober 7, 1985 - Palestinian terrorists hijack the Achille Lauro
September 30, 2008 8:26 PM
Islamic people, I've been told, are very into numerology. 9/11/2001 adds us to 14 which adds up to 5. One aspect of the number 5 in numerology, (there are several aspects,) relates to chaos. With the Madrid incident, if we take off the year, 7/7 adds up to 14 which equals 5, once again. Without the year, once again, 10/07 adds up to 8 which again, with one of it's aspects, is an unstable number. Oh, well. Life is complicated enough right now. Let's put our intention on creating harmony in the world. I know. Ha, you say. I know. I have my fears, too. But I do believe that the intention of many good, loving people can have an effect.
September 30, 2008 8:52 PM
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "7 October 2008: An Update": October, 7, 2001, OBL's speech was aired on Al Jazeera TV.
Joanne has left a new comment on your post "7 October 2008: An Update": Iran should be able to produce nuke by Presidential inauguration
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "7 October 2008: An Update": Kristallnacht the night that European jewry knew that things were going to get very bad. 9/11 1938. In Europe we do our dates the other vawy roiund to you Americans. Whether significant, who knows?
Lady Cincinnatus has left a new comment on your post "7 October 2008: An Update": There is this headline, http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76415"FBI hunts American citizens trained overseas for terror Feds launch dragnet to stop 'October surprise' attack"
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "7 October 2008: An Update": http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46968«"Allah has punished America with winds and water," one imam is quoted in the GIS report as saying.»That is trying to convince themselves that god is on their side.
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "7 October 2008: An Update": Check the dates of muslim offensives. Example:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_WarThe choice of specific dates may have an element of superstition.
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